Barrett did not obstruct Holliday from the plate. This ends the debate.
In an interview with me today, Jim Evans, the man behind the Jim Evans Academy of Professional Umpiring, discussed the topic of obstruction as it applied to Matt Holliday’s slide into home and Michael Barrett’s attempt to block the plate in the recent Rockies vs. Padres one game playoff. At the core of the conversation were baseball’s Rule 7.06(b) and the definition of obstruction under Rule 2.0.
If you google 7.06(b) today, you will find that many of the references listed are from discussion forums, or even websites such as this one, where the rule is cited by armchair umpires across America. In attempt to present an authoritative voice on the topic, I decided to contact Mr. Evans who was gracious enough to spend a few minutes of his time discussing the topic with me. According to MLB.com, the Jim Evans Academy of Professional Umpiring is one of “only two umpiring schools approved by The Professional Baseball Umpire Corp. (PBUC), which oversees all professional baseball umpires.” It should therefore go without saying that Mr. Evans is an expert on this subject and that his opinion is a well informed one, to say the least.
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See the play this interview refers to below (with added commentary)
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I informed Mr. Evans in advance that I had no intention of asking him to comment directly on if Matt Holliday was safe or out. It’s not that I wasn’t curious about his thoughts on the play, but I felt that asking him to specifically comment on the disputed safe call would be inappropriate. My intention for this interview was to explore only the issue of obstruction and so I limited my questions solely to that area. As such, Mr. Evans interview here should NOT been seen as an endorsement of this site’s position that Holliday missed the plate. The interview went on for about 10 minutes but, due to space considerations, I will only present the pertinent excerpts here. However, I hope to make the entire audio file available if I can figure out how to do that.
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Holliday Never Touched the Plate . COM: What’s happened is with this play there’s a lot of people on the web who have called (the play) into question, and are searching the major league rules and are citing the rules that apply to the play. And, when you look for the comments on the web via search engine, its really hard to get to the truth and I’m wondering if you could tell me what you think the applicable rules were on that play. I’m assuming of course that you are familiar with it (the play.)
Jim Evans: Yes. The catcher was totally within his rights in what he did. There’s totally no obstruction. Anybody who says that there’s obstruction has no experience in enforcing official baseball rules. Unquestionably no obstruction. The catcher was in the act of fielding the ball . And in section 2 he’s given full right to occupy that position if he’s in the act of fielding the ball. And so he had a right to be there. The fact that he did not have the ball at the time of the contact is ridiculous because he cannot vaporize, if the ball had left his possession and he continued to lie there and block the plate now you have obstruction. But as long as the aftermath is immediate like that, its nowhere near obstruction. There’s a reference in the rule book to obstruction when the example they give is when a ball is hit by the first baseman, and he dives for it, and loses it, and then continues to lie on the ground and impedes the progress of the runner from first, then you have obstruction. But the key to it is if he continues to lie on the ground. So the play at the plate wasn’t even , obstruction wasn’t even considered. You have hundreds of those plays a season happen, and there’s no obstruction.
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Holliday Never Touched the Plate . COM: I just want to thank you for taking the time to clear this up because it is a topic that is receiving a lot of discussion on the web…
Jim Evans: I’ve been in baseball for over thirty years, teaching and I’ve got the Academy and everything… Anybody that thinks that’s obstruction doesn’t know much about the professional enforcement (of the baseball rules). There may be some rule somewhere that I’m not even aware of in high school or college, and I know there’s some safety rules involved and must slide rules, you’ve got to slide directly into the base, and all kinds of different things. And so, you know I don’t claim to know or be an expert on high school, college, federation, or youth baseball rules, but if you’re enforcing the official baseball rule book, that is not, definitely not obstruction. He’s in the act of fielding the ball. He has a right to be there.
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After reading this I hope you can see that all arguments along the lines of “Holliday was safe because Barrett obstructed the plate” have just been fully and totally negated. Really. I don’t think that you will be able to find a more credible source anywhere than the man who is responsible for running one of the only two camps that trains MLB’s umpires. That I am the one who had to seek out Mr. Evans as a source to comment on obstruction as it relates to Holliday’s slide and Barrett’s block is further evidence of the lack of coverage that the media has afforded this disputed call.
If you still want to claim that Barrett obstructed Holliday, you are essentially saying that you know more about professional baseball rules and their enforcement than Mr. Evans does, in which case you are urged to use this site’s contact form to set up an interview.
Henceforward, all comments about blocking and obstruction of the plate as they relate to Matt Holliday’s slide and Michael Barrett’s block should be referred to this page.
ADMIN
http://www.HollidayNeverTouchedThePlate.com
Did you do this same analysis for the homerun that was taken away from the Rockies?
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ADMIN’s RESPONSE
No. That’s your job.
Maybe time to let it go?
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ADMIN’s RESPONSE:
You know so many people keep saying let it go that I’m starting to wonder what they are afraid of. Are they afraid that if play is reviewed with the original footage, that it will show that Holliday missed the plate and then that simple truth will somehow taint the Rockies’ run? By the way, since this is the internet, I can pretty much rule out that the posters have legitimate concerns for my well being. If I have a day off or two that I want to spend on chronicling this story, then I don’t see anything wrong with that. Once the series is over, and I actually want the Rockies to win, the story won’t be as hot, so the time to present this issue is now.
Umm, didn’t you listen to Manny Ramirez? It’s not the end of the world.
it may be time to get a life
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ADMIN’s RESPONSE:
Coming from the viewpoint of the average American who watches over 4 hours of TV per day, I can understand how many can think that I am spending way too much time on this site. From their perspective I’m sure some people don’t understand how I find the time to do all this.
#1: It doesn’t take as long as you think. The software does most of the work so once you learn the basics, which is kind of fun actually, it’s really easy.
#2: I don’t have a TV, so I have 4 free hours per day that the average American instead spends watching TV.
Perhaps your plea to “get a life” should be directed at the television watching masses of America instead of at me?
3 words, LET IT GO. (redacted)
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ADMIN’s RESPONSE:
I cut you off after three word since that was all you asked for and since the rest of your post was unfairly pejorative. Your comment is included here solely because it illustrates the trend of posters to dismiss the issue by urging it to go away.
So now what happens? Do they take the Rockies win out of the record books, maybe put the padres in the World Series? Or does everything remain just how it is now?
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ADMIN’s RESPONSE:
Nothing changes as far as the actual records or games go, and I’ve never advocated that. I just want the play to be remembered as the blown call that it was, and as long as ESPN and other outlets cling to claim that the replays were “inconclusive” that won’t happen. My hope it that this site will serve to offset that opinion to even a small degree.
It’s over bro….the Rockies won….it’ll be OK. You have too much time on your hands.
Dude get a life!
There is no debate whether Holliday touched the plate or not. Bad calls are made all the time in sports and the Rockies had one in the game too. Get over it!
Stop being a whiny (redacted) and take it like a man. How about directing some of that anger toward your star closer Hoffman, who choked! If he shut the Rockies down, there would not have been a play at the plate.
(redacted)
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ADMIN’s RESPONSE:
As i think I mentioned somewhere else I’m actually a Pirates fan. As such I claim no ownership to Hoffman. My closer is Matt Capps.
I ask this question with zero animus — but the written word lacks a tone of voice.
But I don’t know of any thinking fan who disagrees with your premise. In fact a majority of them acknowledged it half a minute after the play. Matt Holliday indeed never touched homeplate. Stipulated.
So what’s worse, the fact he never touched home plate, but still ended the Padres season, or the fact that everyone acknowledges that injustice, Rockies fans alike, but simply don’t care?
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ADMIN’s RESPONSE:
Thank you for your well stated comment. Between the two choices you presented I would say the latter. Worse than both of these however is that Holliday missed home plate and ESPN/TBS/MLB and others claim the replay was inconclusive. If ESPN and newspapers across America report as fact on October 2nd or 3rd that the call made was wrong, then there is no need for this site. But that’s not what happened.
To bad you wasted Mr. Evans time like this. Only a moron would have considered obstruction. It’s time for people to move on. TV replays were inconclusive. Fact is after the Pads lost two thirds of their outfield in one game they were toast. Their HOF closer failed them, end of story. It’s like Raiders fans who call the immaculate reception an illegal catch(which it was under the rules back then), history ain’t gonna change. Bartman didn’t allow 7 runs to score, Buckner didn’t mismanage the bullpen. Both the Pads and the Cubs sputtered to the last games. 21 out of 22 shows the better team won. The cream has risin to the top.
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ADMIN’s RESPONSE.
I agree with you that only a moron would have considered obstruction. Yet that issue was raised time and time again by posters claiming that “it doesn’t matter if Holliday touched the plate since Barrett was guilty of obstruction and Holliday should have been called safe based on that.” It was the sheer number of responses claiming that obstruction had occurred, and the complete lack of an unimpeachable source on the topic that led me to contact Mr. Evans for his opinion. I feel fortunate that he was kind enough to share 10 minutes of his day to set the record straight on this matter.
And I agree that the replays you may have seen on TV may have been inconclusive. Some of them omitted the first base side reverse angle replay, or even cropped the plate out entirely. Pretty much agree with everything else you said also with the caveat that the history of Holliday’s slide is not yet fully written and therefore its perception is still subject to change.
So what’s your point? what’s your goal for this website?
Do you want the whole world to agree with you? say that you’re right? that you’re the greatest?
Do you want a cookie?
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ADMIN’s RESPONSE:
Taken word for word from my “ABOUT” page: “This disposablog (disposable blog) exists with one main goal in mind, to firmly establish the fact that Colorado’s Matt Holliday never touched the plate when sliding home against the Padres in the the 13th inning of the National League’s 2007 wild card playoff game.”
Ok, you win. Your goal is complete. What’s your next (edited by Admin) cause?
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ADMIN’s RESPONSE:
I don’t know. Maybe I’ll help collect maps to distribute to all U.S. Americans.
I have to wonder if Holiday went in the way he did to avoid Barretts propensity to wink out after getting nailed. I will always believe the Pads were screwed by the umpires in the Milton Bradley case. I believe there would have been no playoff required had Bradley been in the line-up. If the Rox win the WS, all that will be remembered is 25 of 26,7,8,or9; if they lose they won’t be remembered at all. Who lost the ‘92 series? or 98?87? or ‘76?
Fans are funny anyway. A coworker is a Mariners fan. He said after the 116 win season” I don’t care if we lost, we are still the best team in MLB. What do I care if we lost a tournament?” Like it was the Alaska Shootout instead of championship playoffs.
As a Rockies fan there were 2 bad calls in that game. One is the infamous Holliday never touched the plate call. You’re right he didn’t. The other was the homerun that robbed the Rockies of ever having to go into extra innings by Mr. Garret Atkins. Funny how things balance each other out huh? Point is the Rox are in the World Series after winning 21 of 22, Hoffman blew the game, hell the Padres had plenty of chances to clinch a playoff berth and simply couldn’t get it done. If you ask me that call was poetic justice. I think it’s probably time we all let this thing go. Are you trying to see how long you can drag it out or what? What’s next, a website still debating the tuck rule?
I’ll be interested to see where this site goes in the coming months.
Yeah you’re right Flotsam, it should be really interesting to see where the creator takes it. So many different paths to go.
Of all the sports injustices to complain about, Holiday’s slide has to be at the bottom of the list. The fact that the Padres were even in extra innings was a travesty considering that Atkins’ homer not only cleared the fence, but it dented an empty chair next to the wheelchair lady. So you had many extra at bats to do something, and you still couldn’t put it away. Also, even if he is out, the way Hoffman was coughing it up, Hawpe drives in Helton and you lose anyway. Or you lose in the bext inning (score had already been tied). It was a force of nature. Submit to it.
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ADMIN’s response.
I don’t normally speculate on what would have happened next but this is not speculation, Bud Black is on record as saying he would have walked Hawpe to face the pitcher’s spot in the order.
Ok, I’m behind you on the maps thing. Maybe we can Matty a map to home plate…and we’ve come full circle.
ok. i am a padres’ fan. he did not touch the plate. the padres should have never been in that position in the first place. hoffman blew that save against the brewers. hoffman blew the save in the playoff game. we aren’t even talking about this if hoffman does what he gets paid millions to do. get over it.
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ADMIN’s RESPONSE
This purpose of this site is not to examine a few of the many, many, way San Diego could have won the wild card or Division title. The purpose of this site is to examine Holliday’s slide.
ADMIN’s NOTE
Just found out that this site was linked by Deadspin.com which probably caused some slowdowns earlier today.
I’ve just upgraded my hosting account to allow more simultaneous sessions so it should get a little smoother. Also, while you are here, be sure to visit my home page for the rest of the articles.
Tell Barrett to catch the ball!! Atkins homerun was clearly a HR so it shouldnt have even came down to extra innings, but thanks for wasting your time with this GARBAGE. I guess Padres fans have nothing else to do. GO ROCKIES! World Series bound. P.S. Tell your manager to at least argue the call at home next time. WAY TO GO BUD BLACK. Im out faster than the Padres in the tiebreaker game.
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ADMIN’s RESPONSE:
I’m not sure I understand your analogy, when you say “Im out faster than the Padres in the tiebreaker game.” do you mean that that you will leave after 13 innings and 4+ hours and even then you’ll only leave when the umpire blows a call?
In nearly every case when a catcher blocks the plate before receiving the ball, it is a violation of the MLB rules. The umpires have simply agreed to look the other way on enforcing this rule just as they have on enforcing the actual strike zone.
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ADMIN’s RESPONSE:
Since you left your name as Anonymous I’m going to get a little out of character with this response. Are you kidding me? Did you read the interview? This is the guy that trains MLB umpires, and he is saying in no uncertain terms that there was no obstruction on the play. How can you think that you are right and he is wrong?
Good site I am glad somebody took the time to air this out . The announcers on Fox have been making a lot of pointed comments about how he never touched the plate .Which I found interesting . The bottom line is he did not and the Rockies Bandwagon fans need to live with that fact instead of making arguments all around it.
Here’s a thought. My dad is a high school umpire in Ohio. We often banter about baseball rules. One time a few years ago we were hanging out watching college football, and he was laying on the couch reading his rulebook or example book. He posed the following hypothetical:
Bases empty, no outs. Batter hits a slow roller to shortstop. Shortstop charges and fields, hurries his throw, and pulls the first baseman off the bag. The batter, lunging down the line to try to beat the throw, actually steps *over* the bag. So the batter hasn’t touched first, and the first baseman hasn’t put him out. What’s the call?
My answer was “no call.” Wrong. In this situation the umpire is actually supposed to signal “safe.” Even though the runner never reached the bag. And even though the first baseman could still force him at first simply by touching the bag. Why? We have no idea. Doesn’t make any sense, does it? But that’s the rule, at least in Ohio high school, and at least at first base. I don’t know if the rule is the same in MLB, or at home plate. But if that *is* the rule, that would explain Holliday’s play at the plate, wouldn’t it? Of course, it wouldn’t necessarily explain anything that happened next (and I, to be honest, don’t have any idea what happened next — did Holliday go back and touch the plate? Was he tagged out? Did the defense give up on the play?) but it would at least explain the initial signal of “safe.”
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ADMIN’s RESPONSE:
High School does have a different set of rules. I imagine that one is for safety. But regarding Holliday’s slide, I think in this case Mr. Evans word should be taken as the most authoritative definition of the enforcement of Rule 7.06(b) that appears anywhere on the web.
as for your other questions:
Holliday did not go back and tag the plate.
Barrett was in the process of tagging Holliday when McClelland signaled safe and its unclear if he actually completed the tag although he easily could have.
Yeah, I’m not disputing anything Evans said. My hypo doesn’t even deal with 7.06(b).
I realize that rule may be peculiar to the OHSAA, but it’s hard to see how that would be a safety rule. It doesn’t do anything to prevent scuffles or contact or anything like that. It basically amounts to an instruction to the umpires to signal “safe” if the fielder accidentally doesn’t put the runner out, and the runner accidentally doesn’t touch the bag.
Of course, if Barrett went back and tagged Holliday, that would blow this theory out of the water.